Posts by Anders Andersen

22

My email to JW Following Trolley Conversation

by cofty in

a few weeks ago i had an really interesting conversation with three male jws who were loitering around a trolley at the west end of princes street in edinburgh.. i managed to completely avoid giving any hint about my jw past and focussed on why they thought the bible was a reliable moral guide.

i used the subject of slavery to illustrate my concerns.. one of the three was in his early twenties, knew a lot about his own beliefs but nothing about the real life and it was difficult to get through his thought-bubble.

the second one was in his 60s and not very bright.

Anders Andersen

How trivially easy would it have been for god to instruct the nation of Israel that no man should ever take another human as a possession?

The default cop out for JW about slavery is 'well everyone did it, changing that would be too much to ask, and God did made sure the slaves were treated properly'.

Well, God did not make sure the slaves were treated properly.

But more importantly, God had no problem issuing laws that (allegedly) went against what was customary.

Beards should not be cut, clothing should have a blue ribbon and fringes, can't eat blood, etc.

All laws that were different from what everyone else did. Some were specifically intended to set Israel apart from everyone else.

What better could God have done than setting Israel apart by forbidding slavery and discrimination of women?

Yet he chose to ignore these important topics and focused on food and clothes.

To me it seems this supposed moral guide has its priorities all wrong.

20

FOLLOW THE MONEY !!

by Phizzy in

this from j.w survey :.

https://jwsurvey.org/we knew they did this to a degree, but this is a blatant way of siphoning money to where the leaders want it, with no control, no transparency, and no way for anyone to be able to see where it has gone.

jehovah’s witness uk headquarters dissolves kingdom hall charities, seizes full control of property and finances.

Anders Andersen

Great leak.

We all know 99.99% of all bodies of elders will mindlessly do as the Borg 'suggests' or 'invites' them to do.

And we so know what resolutions really are: tests of loyalty where everyone but the local secret apostate agree with whatever the elders propose.

I hope some congregations refuse and stand their ground.

That some bodies of elders simply choose to dismiss this 'proposal' altogether and don't even put it up for vote.

That some congregations vote "no".

Just so that the leaders ("we don't have leaders! We only have men that take the lead") know they are not all-powerful.

And maybe, just maybe Watchtower will fight them over this (seemingly unimportant) issue and cause a next Menlo park type scandal.

A man can dream, right? :-D

10

Where do we rate WatchTower or Awake!

by dydeonwl in

i'm astonished to read that watchtower leads the list of magazines and awake!

is in competition for ranking.

your thoughts are required in this matter.. http://bit.ly/3axlc3o.

Anders Andersen

IKEA catalogue has 208M copies in circulation. Does that mean IKEA is The Truth? :-D

And I'm quite sure there are other free product advertisement periodicals that match Watchtower's circulation.
Watchtower isn't really a magazine; it's a sales pitch in a thin advertisement folder.

Imho the difference between a (real) magazine and an advertisements is this: in magazines, the articles are the product. People buy/read magazines because they enjoy the stories, interviews and whatnot.

In advertisements, there is a product or service being sold. The interviews and stories aren't in there for themselves, they are there to push a product or service.

Watchtower qualifies as advertisement to me.

15

Dutch State secretary reaction about abuse report and argumentation judge

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

reaction of state secretary and arguments of judge about report jw abuse in the netherlands.

minister dekker: report on jehovah's sketches "extremely worrying" picture

the report on the extent of sexual abuse within the community of jehovah's witnesses paints an extremely worrying picture.

Anders Andersen

I really find this difficult to express properly, in terms of, how on one hand the Dutch are one of most liberal societies in the world regarding sexuality, yet on the other are more strict at setting acceptable standards of right and wrong.

It's not even complicated. The keyword is "consent".
As long as all involved parties are fully informed, consenting adults, they can do whatever the hell they want when it comes to sex. Nobody else needs to interfere. That's your "liberal".

Of course, children cannot consent, and a skewed power balance (for example when a 16 y/o is 'in a relationship' with a 35 y/o) makes proper, fully informed consent impossible. That's your "strict".

Again, the keyword is informed consent.

5

My thoughts about Watchtower fully owned "independent" lawyer firm / Dutch case

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

friends,.

of course we have the vampire story, but this is what i'm thinking of now:.

in the current dutch jw.org law cases about child abuse and religion rights the jw.org is represented by shane brady, partner of w. glen how & associaties.

Anders Andersen

There may be something else to this: afaik in some (many?) jurisdictions discussions with in-house lawyers do not automatically fall under attorney-client privilege.

What better way to make sure your in-house lawyer can never be made to testify against you then making him an external firm on paper?

23

Watchtower hires Satanism author & Dracular society member Massimo Introvigne to defend them in Dutch CSA

by Diogenesister in

hi guys...well watchtower gets wackier and wackier!.

so watchtower has hired the author of several books on satanism & self proclaimed 'vampire' society member(!

) vlad...i mean massimo introvigne to defend them against a report by two academics recommending the dutch govt investigate jws.

Anders Andersen

The Wikipedia page on CESNUR makes clear that they happily defend all kinds of despicable cults, JW and Scientology being the least evil of them(!). They have defended several cults that committed mass murder and/or mass suicide.

One of the guys that now co-authored the 'expert opinion' in defense of Dutch JW also flew to Japan (all expenses paid) to defend the Aum Shinrikyo cult that killed 13 in the 1995 sarin gas attacks in the Tokyo metro. His 'expert opinion' then was that they could impossibly have done that, and they were being scapegoated. He later had to admit he was wrong after solid evidence showed that the cult did indeed perform those attacks.

Apparently these guys don't need much to go on to defend evil cults. As one reporter states: 'all the cults know they can count on CESNUR'.

What does that say about the worth of their (very much flawed) 'expert opinion' submitted to the Dutch government?

15

Dutch State secretary reaction about abuse report and argumentation judge

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

reaction of state secretary and arguments of judge about report jw abuse in the netherlands.

minister dekker: report on jehovah's sketches "extremely worrying" picture

the report on the extent of sexual abuse within the community of jehovah's witnesses paints an extremely worrying picture.

Anders Andersen

My 2 cents as a Dutchman:

Whenever newspapers use 'jehovas' JW do perceive it as hostile and disrespectful.

I'm not quite sure the media intend it that way too.

"Jehovah's Getuigen" is simply way too long for the limited space in newspaper (headings). Many people also really don't care about it. Do people and media in the US pr UK normally say 'Mormons' or 'Church of the Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ'?

It's not really intentionally hostile or offensive; it's just that people don't care enough about all those wacky religions that have strict preferences about how they want to be named.

Side note: The official spelling rules say proper spelling in Dutch is "Jehova", not the English "Jehovah". Many media use official spelling, much to the chagrin of the 'Jehovas'

8

Must read Dutch newspaper article about jw culture related to abuse

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

must read news paper article about jw culture.. jehovahs: "you do not bring a brother to justice" a parallel community with deviating values and norms, which conceals abuse cases as quickly as possible and where women are subordinate to men.

that picture emerges from a report on the jehovah's witnesses published on thursday.

bas soetenhorst january 23, 2020, 5:16 pm a gathering of tens of thousands of jehovah's witnesses in the rai in 1979. image anp with the jehovah's witnesses, the biblical principle is that you should not bring your brother to justice.

Anders Andersen

Gorby,

Do you have a link to the source?

10

Latest news from The Netherlands: Jehovah's want to stop publication of critical report on abuse

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

Anders Andersen

Update:

Today during the court session JW requested to have the case tried behind closed doors, without press or public. Otherwise (parts) of the report would become public regardless of the judge's verdict.

The judge agreed, which means that media and others (several victims, activists and exjw had shown up) had to leave the court room.

The case took 5 hours today, but the judge hasn't ruled yet. He will present his verdict tomorrow (Thursday) at 16:00 Dutch time (GMT +1).

So far many mainstream media have reported on the court case. A lot of attention has been generated. Many people assume JW are trying to cover up their flaws and are now curious about the report.

7

Interesting WT Deluge Contradiction I just noticed.

by Jofi_Wofo in

i was reviewing some of the evidence the wt proposes for their claim of the bible's scientific accuracy, when i came across this interesting assertion.. the mountains rise and fall, and today’s mountains were once under the ocean.

(psalm 104:6, 8) in contrast, several myths say that the mountains were created in their current form by the gods.. https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/science-and-the-bible/.

interesting.

Anders Andersen

Another one:

JW: "Evolution is false! Never happened!"

Also JW: "It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah."